Theresa:

Thank you for having us. Theresa. I would love it if both Susan and George, if you guys could introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about your connection to Guide Dogs for the Blind and this project. So let's start with you, Susan.

Susan Armstrong:

Okay, thanks, Theresa. Thrilled to be here. My name is Susan Armstrong and I am currently the Vice President of Client Programs, which means I oversee our three core programs, our Guide Dog program, our canine buddy program, and our orientation and mobility immersion program. I started at Guide Dogs 30 years ago.

Theresa: 

Wow. Congratulations.

Susan:

That's so amazing. Thank you. T? Yeah, I started on the Oregon campus, so I spent my first 15 years being a guide dog mobility instructor in Oregon, training dogs and training clients. And then in around 2011, I actually moved to California to be the director of training in California and then ultimately moved back to Oregon to be the director of training in Oregon. And now I oversee all of our client programs. Our mission is near and dear to my heart. I've spent my career here and I'm thrilled with this new project.

George:

I'm also very pleased to be here. And my name again is George Miers. I'm an architect. I'm a partner of Studio Myers Cho Poon. We're located in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I've done work all over the United States and in Canada. Most people ask me how do I get into animal care? I've done a lot of public buildings, but my animal care work started a long, long time ago on a chimpanzee exhibit of all things which I had the dinner of doing with Jane Goodall,

Who I learned quite a bit from. And perhaps the most important thing she kind of taught me or got into my head was that all upper primate animals, including humans, need choices. And that's kind of resonated with me. It was sometime after that I had the opportunity to start doing a few animal shelters and one thing led to another and I started doing them all over the US and probably most of the major Canadian facilities in Ottawa, Winnipeg, Edmonton. And we just finished one up in Regina, Saskatchewan. Probably my link to Guide Dogs for the Blind is that I also had the honor of working with its current CEO, Christine Benger on a facility in San Francisco Bay area called Silicon Valley Humane Society, where she was the chief executive officer of that facility probably about 12, maybe 12, 13 years ago. And that brings me here with you.

Theresa: 

Thank you, George. That's an amazing background. I almost think that you need to write a book that is really cool, and I love that you have that connection with our CEO, Chris. So Susan, tell us a little bit about this project. It's such a huge project and what has inspired you to do it and why now?

Susan:

Thanks, Theresa. Yeah, this is going to be a state-of-the-art building. One of the reasons that we are doing this now is that especially in Oregon, we have capacity space issues. So right now we can have up to seven clients in Oregon, and this new building is going to double our capacity to serve. So we currently have six rooms. We're going to have 14. Amazing. As you're aware, there is a shortage of services for orientation mobility in this country, and we don't see that getting better anytime soon. So we're very excited to be for the first time building a building with our orientation and mobility program in mind, which I know is near and dear to your heart as you started it.

Theresa:

Yes, hundred percent. Yeah. I'm so excited.

Susan:

Yes, we are really excited. And I think the other thing that we have done in the past as far as both in Oregon and in California, we're building buildings. We've kind of built the residents for clients separate from the buildings for staff, and this is really bringing the two together. And so this is going to be an inclusive complex that brings our clients, our puppy raisers, our staff, our donors and visitors into the same place to build an even bigger and more thriving community and guide dog clients. And our orientation mobility clients are going to be learning side by side. So we're so excited for what we're going to be able to do in this new space.

Theresa: 

Yes, I can't wait. It's going to be amazing. And I love that it's client residents and community hub, and I think that really sort of brings that together, that idea that is, I think so ingrained in our mission at Guide Dogs for the Blind is that community. So congratulations on that. I love this vision. So George, you had some seriously interesting projects over the years. Tell us a little bit about this one and maybe some of the unique challenges and things that you've had to creatively put together in order to meet the needs of canines and people and people with visual impairment.

George:

Yes. Well, it's a great question. Generally, buildings are perceived visually, and I can assure you that architects over the years have focused on the visual aspects of a building, either three dimensionally from the distance or even internally mean, but it's done visually. The challenge here is that that's a bit of a problem for many of the clients who either are having issues with their vision or are completely blind. And so in a way, it's sort of rethinking building design and certainly three dimensional interior space and to a certain extent, three dimensional exterior space. So there's a special emphasis that we've actually been placing here on experiencing space with other senses. So for example, the sense of acoustics of sound, the sense of a tactile feel, whether it's your feet, what you're walking on, going from one surface to another, what you're touching, believe it or not, the sense of smell and aroma, how this all can be put together into a unique way finding system that actually works for everyone.

I mean, certainly with a focus that are for those who are visually at a disadvantage, but for dogs and for humans itself. So rethinking how you go about identifying the environment, you're in a completely different way, I think has been at the heart of the challenger. And I'll give you an example. Those are just words. But another aspect of this design, and I'll tie it back into the senses perception, is that the facility is not really meant to be the easiest place to maneuver. It's really a learning place. This is where clients from different walks of life come and learn how to adjust and live with the dog that's going to be their companion. And so there's a learning aspect to it. The existing facility is a one story building. There was a lot of discussion, well, do we keep it a one story building that's obviously the easiest to navigate, but many clients don't live in a one story building.

They go home and they're in a walkup apartment or they're in a multi-story home. So a very conscious decision was made that it would be a two story building, and that is completely because of training and training opportunities to utilize stairs and elevators. So for example, those stairs and elevators become very important design elements, and in most buildings, there'll be a sign and it'll say, elevator this way, or you see the elevator or you see the stair. We've had to rethink that and figure out a way that it becomes more obvious. So both of our, we have in the client wing, we actually have three stairs in the overall facility and two elevators. But in our client wing, in our two stairs, we've actually introduced fountains, small fountains, but that make the sound of noise a sound of water. So there's always an identification that where there is vertical transportation, be it an elevator or a stair, there is the sound of water that's associated with it when you walk by the elevator or stair, and quite frankly other spaces as well.

When you get to an intersection of let's say two hallways, we will very consciously change materials. So for example, you might be walking on wood and then you get onto a rubber floor, two surfaces that you can tell the difference. And also visually, if you can still see, but you're having trouble with shapes and figures, there'll be a sharp contrast visually between these two or between a tile and carpet, for example. We've even talked about the introduction of aroma. That could be everything from smelling the coffee that's made in the morning to location of maybe gardenias or there's different scent infusions where we're still talking about different ways to do that, but methods that involve all the senses in helping you identify and move through a building that you're there in an effort to learn how to live with your future dog. So it's quite a challenge, but also kind of a fun challenge.

Theresa:

Yeah, it sounds like a fun opportunity. And I will put my vote in for the chocolate chip cookie smell there. I can find that anywhere I second that, I love God. Second that there.

George:

Lemme also add, because I think your listeners would appreciate this. We do have a very, very special consultant working on our team who is a blind architect. His name is Chris Downey. He's actually more famous. He's more famous than I am. I can tell you that he seems to be on speaking engagements and consultants on projects all over the world on facilities for the blind and the deaf. What makes him unique is that he was a scene architect for the first 20 years of his career, but then lost his sight. So he brings that experience and now he's had to relearn how to navigate three dimensional space, and he's the only architect I know of that actually is working in that manner. I could go on and on and on and beyond the timeframe we have here to talk about all the special insights he's brought to this. But that has been a very important part of the development of the project, particularly in the area of way finding through the facility.

Theresa: 

No, that's great. And I love getting advice from someone who is visually impaired. And Susan, I know that as far as our clients, you've did a lot of work and focus groups and sort of tapping into what clients want. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience?

Susan:

Absolutely. I think that that is one of the most important part of this project, and really the design of this project is because of feedback that we gathered from clients and staff before it was built. So in the beginning of this project at the concept phase, we had focus groups with clients. We sent out a survey to all clients to ask about their experience while in training and just experiencing the building itself. And then in phase two where we had a little bit more detailed design drawings, we had another focus group and we mailed out tactile maps to everyone. Our whole architect team, yes, our whole architect team was on the call and got feedback in that stage as well. So really the design that you're going to see when this building is done is because of that input. And I think that's one of the things that I'm the most excited about this is that this building is going to show what's possible, and it's also going to be an example of involving the stakeholders who are going to be using the building in the design phase. I think that not only have staff and our clients embrace that, but our architect team has been so committed to that too. So I really think this is going to be a facility designed by the community for the community. And so I think one of the frustrations that people with disabilities sometimes feel is that they're not consulted at the beginning of the design, and they're asked later, Hey, does this work for you? Which

Theresa: 

Is just right. Then they say, that's too expensive to fix, but to do that now.

Susan :

Exactly. Yes. So I think when we talk about accessibility, and George touched on a little bit, but we want to go beyond technical compliance. There's a compliance and then there's true usability for people. And really, he talked about all the tactile and auditory navigation, a predictable layout, the acoustics part, and I think we wanted a building that wasn't devoid of sound, but also the sound experience was pleasant.

Theresa: 

Yeah, actually, I was going to ask you about that, Susan, because I actually got to go to that sound studio. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about, I thought that was just an amazing opportunity. Tell us a little bit about that project.

Susan:

And I've learned a lot in this process too. So when you're deciding how do you want sound to be? How much sound do you want in the building? How much sound between rooms between floors are acoustic engineers at Arup, which is in, they have a base in San Francisco, they have a special lab where clients can go in the beginning phase of the project and they recreate different materials that would be in the walls, but create a different acoustic experience. So we were able to hear what it will sound like from room to room and in the dining hall and all these spaces that we get a lot of feedback. I think George will agree with me, our current, especially in Oregon, because this was built 30 years ago, the acoustic experience in Oregon is not very pleasant.

Theresa: 

Yeah, that's true.

Susan:

So we all went. So that involved our architect team staff, of course our CEO went, you went and we got to pick the materials that we wanted that would dampen sound in some spaces and allow some sound in others.

George:

If I could just add to that sound in particular, I mean, all the senses are important in this project, and I hope I got that across. But sound is particularly important, and I think many of these clients, as they've lost their sight or it's diminished sound becomes the other senses become enhanced to a certain extent and they're relied upon and sound is certainly one of 'em. So the absence of sound is actually not something we're trying to do. The difficulty is drawing the line between what is desired sound and what is undesired sound. Undesired sound is noise, right?

Theresa: 

Right.

George:

So part of the study we've concluded, at least on the following, that sound between units, one unit to the other, and certainly somebody walking on the floor above, which I'm sure every experience unwanted sound, you really don't want to be hearing that. So we brought to very special care to not only come up with really good, our walls are double walls. They're not single walls. They have an insulation, they've got an airspace between them. Same thing with very unique kinds of floor systems. But at the same time, we don't want the rooms to be so completely isolated that you feel isolated because that is also a concern that we heard from many of the clients. There's actually a desire to hear that they're not the only ones left in the world, that there's somebody else

Theresa: 

There. Is there anybody out there? Is there anybody out there? Yeah.

George:

It's a very interesting, in a way, dichotomy of how do you pull these different criteria together? And for us, it's just been an incredible, for us as architects, it's been an incredible learning experience, listening to the clients talk about these experiences and then trying to figure out, okay, how do you do this? How do you provide good sound where sound is desired and block out sound where it would not be desired?

Theresa: 

It's a balance and it's not something, I think if you had just asked me without thinking about it, I would've said, yeah, no, I don't want to hear anything, but you do want to hear stuff. I love to hear the birds outside, but the difference between sound and noise, I think that's fascinating. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So we talked a little bit about the accessibility of the building. Do you have anything else to add to that? Other things that were, things that you put together to make sure that the building was accessible?

Susan:

I'd like to talk about the lighting because there's so many

Theresa:

Fight about lighting. Exactly right, among blind people. Trust me, I like it. Low light, some people like it highlight.

Susan:

Absolutely. And that's one of the core things that we knew going into this project and from the feedback that we got, and also operating for the last 30 years in a building that the lighting is not adjustable. So we wanted to have adjustable light where possible throughout the building. We wanted to avoid reflective materials that cause glare, and yes, so we wanted to use contrasting colors for those with low vision. Then we wanted to look at backlit signage and some use of different lighting throughout the building that is not direct lighting, so it's going to be indirect lighting up in the ceilings and from the side sometimes that to me, and then the rooms are going to be spectacular. So the client rooms are going to be fully adjustable by the client that's staying there. It's going to be voice controlled systems for lighting, window shades, temperature, using, oh my

Theresa:

Gosh,

Susan:

I know ai, AI technology, and we're going a little bit further even with the light. So the light, we're going to have different colors of light. They're going to be able to adjust the intensity. So I think that, and it goes to the heart of this project, I really think we want this building to be a place where people can realize what's possible. And so while everyone's not going to have an AI controlled lighting system in their house, I think that coming to a place that allows you to see, does blue light work better for me? Does amber light work better for me with my vision? And they can take that away and of course, maybe not have AI controlled, but it's really, we want this building for people to realize their potential, to realize that there are things out there that can really improve their quality of life.

Theresa: 

It's like a working interview or working low vision exam where you get to actually live with the stuff and see what really works for you. Because a lot of times, people who are visually impaired, they go in, they have a low vision exam, and they look at something for five minutes and like, oh yeah, that one's better. That one's better. But to actually have a couple weeks to really see what is going to make the most sense for you, that's an amazing opportunity. I've never heard of that at any other program. Serving people with visual impairments.

George:

Well, this is a very cutting edge program. I mean, everyone's familiar, I assume, with Alexa, right?

Theresa:

So it's

George :

Not like this technology is not here, but this is taking Alexa to another level and working with actually a couple of different manufacturers like Lutron that does lighting and shades and incorporating actually a system. You may hear this in the future, called Josh as opposed to Alexa that really integrates all of these different systems. And an interesting question that came up at a recent presentation involved somebody from housekeeping at the current facility, and they said, well, one of the issues that we have is the clients try as best they can to adjust the lights to the level that they're comfortable with. But when we go in and do the housekeeping, we need to see better and turn the lights all the way open, and then the clients get frustrated. They come back and it's at some completely different setting. They have to start all over again. Of course. Yeah. This system, you'll be able to actually program it. So there is a housekeeping. You come in and housekeeping lighting,

Theresa: 

Oh, no way.

George:

This will be set at whatever staff decides that is. And when they leave, they'll set it back to client lighting, whatever the previous one was. So I mean, those sound like small things, but they're really kind of interesting, unique, and I think that when someone visits the new facility, they probably will say, wow, this is really unique and revolutionary and this and that, but I will bet that you'll begin to see this in the marketplace in the next two, three years. So in a way, this particular program that Susan was describing is a forerunner for I think what you're going to see in the industry as we all move forward.

Theresa:

Yeah, absolutely. It reminds me of when you're in a car and you can set your seat for the driver a certain way, and if somebody else drives it, then they can change it back. It's so great. And the other thing about that I think that I love is that it makes everybody feel valued. So the staff that are going in to clean have what they need. The clients have what they need. So it's really, I think, speaks to full inclusion as well.

Susan:

Yeah, I would agree. Theresa and I also, just a note for, I think that there's been a lot of discussion about technology and some people aren't comfortable with technology, so we are going to have toggle switches and things that people, if they don't want to use the technology, that they can also do that, but still have some adjustable lighting.

Theresa:

Good, good. That's great. That's great. Because technology can be a little overwhelming, but this sounds like it's going to be super user-friendly, which I love. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait. So tell us a little bit about the timeline and all that good stuff. It sounds like you guys are going to be breaking ground soon, huh?

George:

Well, you're right. We're hoping that's the case. We're looking at kind of a multi permit process. Just to move things up a little bit where,

Because obviously on any project, you first have to get into the ground and get your utility set. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the ground before you could actually start building the building. And in our case, we have an existing building that we have to maintain an operation, and the new building actually is being built around it, and they have to coexist together. So we're going to be submitting in about one month for a separate underground utility erosion control permit process. We've gotten pretty good assurances from the county. AMI County been great to work with on this, that they can process this pretty quickly. That actually would allow us to break ground with this work July 1st of this year.

Theresa:

Wow, that is soon. Holy moly. Wow.

George:

And then during that time, we'd be finishing the drawings, but the underground work and all the work I was describing is going to take a couple of months to do, and by that time, we should have the permit then in hand to do the rest of the project. So it is moving ahead very rapidly.

Theresa:

Wow, that's great. That's great. Like I said, I'm so excited about this project. I just think it's going to be, like you said, revolutionary for all of us. So thank you guys so much for working on this.

George:

Well, just as a final comment, it may be that people visit this, they see things that ought to be in any building, not just your typical a solutions to problems, but actually a different way of looking at way finding for buildings that aren't designed for people that are deaf or visually impaired, or that there's a different way of maybe organizing things and identifying things that this building may inspire others to look more closely at.

Theresa: 

Yeah. I think that's that whole concept of universal design, and I know you guys are, it's going to really show people what they can do. And the thing is, when something is built that way, like you said, it helps everybody. So I think you're right. I think it's going to be a great example for the rest of the world.

Susan:

Yeah. Theresa, I just wanted to add, because I think one of the things, and George kind of touched on it, but the barrier is the built environment. It's not the disability. And so to achieve full inclusion and full participation, if you design a building for everyone, including those with disabilities, it works for everyone, to your point. And I think that we do hope to inspire other people. I would love it if other architects came to this building and walked away with thinking about those things in their design. As I've been working with George, and he says it as far as how much he's learned in this project, and George has been designed what I would assume, hundreds of thousands of buildings, George, and having a team of architects go away from lighting and acoustics, thinking about these things for their other projects is another thing that we want to accomplish here.

Theresa: 

Yes. Yeah, it spreads it all out. That's fantastic. This sounds like an amazing project. Can you guys tell me what's going to be included in it, what it's going to look like and all that good stuff? All those details?

Susan:

Yeah, so I'll give an overview. So this is going to be a client residence, of course, that has 14 rooms, and of course we're going to have our dining hall, which will be essential feature. There's going to

Theresa:

The most important.

Susan:

Yes, always Food is the center of guide Dogs for the blind, and then the other part of the building is going to be the community hub. So that's going to be where we have, of course, our entrances and lobby and our administrative is going to be there. And then there's going to be offices of staff. So I'll be over there, our hr.

Theresa:

Oh, cool.

Susan:

Yeah, our HR department will be over there. There's several offices, and then there's a gallery that will be like a visitor gallery. So we're going to have displays of things that educate and talk about our program. There's going to be an integrative kiosk with braille display. It's going to be audio telling everyone about the space. That space is going to overlook. It's going to be windows that look over the training garden and training space, which is outside. There'll be a cafe area where people can gather. Really, again, this project has cafe and several client lounges because we really heard that people want space for connection. So we tried to build those into some of these spaces, and then we're going to have 20,000 square feet of outdoor space, so we're going to have it. Wow. Yes. So just for size comparison, that's four football fields, so it's going to be Holy moly. Right. So we're going to have a part of it for events. There's going to be a training space, obviously with built-in obstacles and areas for trainers to train their dogs. And then we're going to have a really big outdoor play yard, a fenced outdoor space where dogs can run, and then we'll have a sensory garden and sensory garden for humans and for dogs. So that's still being And

Theresa: 

For dogs. Yes. I love that. I love it.

Susan:

So there's actually a Facebook group that talks about sensory gardens for dogs. So I found that really interesting. And so that's really, again, throughout the building, building places both indoor and outdoor for gathering for people. Of course, in Oregon, you need to cover things because it rains, and then outside of each client room, they're going to have, of course, a patio where they can relax, and then they're going to have 10 by 12 square foot fenced play yard for their dog so that they can Oh,

Theresa:

Really?

Susan:

Yes. Wow. It's going to be amazing. And then at the very end of that is going to be a relieving space. So we are so excited about all of those things. George, did I miss anything? No,

George:

No. I think you hit the high points.

Theresa: 

Oh my gosh. When can I move in? I know. I think I want to move in now. You sound so amazing. Oh my gosh. Well, George and Susan, thank you so much for joining us today and telling us about this amazing, ambitious, awesome revolutionary project that you have going on. We wish you the very best of luck with it, and I hope you'll come back as the project goes forward and give us updates.

George:

We will. We'd love to. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.

Theresa:

Absolutely.

Theresa: 

Thank you for tuning into Central Bark, a podcast from Guide Dogs for the Blind. If you enjoyed today's broadcast, please hop on over to Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five star review your reviews, help more people find our podcasts, and learn about GD B's life-changing mission. We also love it when you leave us notes. As always, if you have an idea for an episode or a question you'd like us to answer on our podcast, please send us an email at [email protected]. We love hearing from you. So head over to guide dogs.com/podcasts where you can find recordings of previous episodes along with show notes and transcripts.