Theresa: Hello. Deb: Hello. Zoom is very broken, and I couldn't get in. Theresa: Oh, yeah. I was going to try to get in because I'm like oh because it just came up as waiting. Let me -- Deb: Yeah. Well, no, Zoom is -- there's something broken. I couldn’t -- I can select the meeting, but I couldn't get the meeting to open, and I tried this on three PCs. So I think they've finally done an update that's kind of done us in, but I'll look into that later. Theresa: Okay. Kelly’s here. Leigh’s here. Oh, good. Everybody’s here now. Deb: So we’re, we're good. Yeah. I'm sorry I'm late, but like I said, I was locked out. Theresa: No. Yeah. No, no. There’s so much crazy stuff going on. Deb: Yeah. So I'm sorry to everyone in our audience, as well, that we're a little late getting started. But it looks like Zoom took an update today that has taken away when you select your meeting in the panel, then you can't join it anymore. So I've got to figure out why. Theresa: Crazy. Unidentified: But we’re here now. Deb: But we're here now and I -- Theresa: We love technology. We do. Deb: I suddenly realized that I had an alternative plan that if I could get logged into the account, I could use the meeting link. So I did. Theresa: Right. I was about to do that too, so that’s -- I am so glad that you came on. Deb: Sorry about that. Yes. Theresa: No worries. Okay. Let me start my video, which -- that's fine. Nobody -- Leigh: I know. Same with me. Deb: Okay. People are still coming in. Leigh: I'll give us a few more minutes. Thanks so much, Deb. Theresa: Yeah, really. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Deb: Oh no. No problem. I should have started sooner. I thought I did. Kelly: I know. I was on for 15 minutes going. “Huh? Well. Okay.” Deb: Yeah. Theresa: Well, I'm just glad you're okay, because I know you were getting your vaccines. Kelly: Right. Leigh: Oh, Deb. While we're waiting just a few more minutes, the other question that I have is during the Speaker Series, you're taking just questions at the end. There's not -- Deb: Whenever you want them. Oh, whenever you want them. Leigh: Okay, so is the -- not chat, but the Q&A section or whatever, is that set up? Is that -- Deb: It looks like it's not up. Leigh: Okay. Deb: I don’t know who’s turned it off, but ... Leigh: Okay. Well, we can just do it maybe at the end because -- Deb: - So we can just do hands, and you can do it whenever you want to. So if you want to do it after each person, you can or if you want to do it -- Leigh: Well, because it's more like a conversation, it might be better to do it at the end. Deb: Okay. We need to end pretty close on time, so we probably do want to get started because we've got a group that meets in here after. Leigh: Yes. Yep. Okay. Well, then I'll go ahead and kick it off. Good evening, everyone. This is Leigh Moss with my guide here, Aviva. We're from Austin, Texas. I currently serve on the GDB Alumni Board as the secretary. But tonight I'm here to kick off this amazing Speaker Series about ways that our incredible alumni are blazing their own trails. And speaking of incredible alumni, let me introduce our speakers for this evening. So we've got Kelly Egan, who is a fellow board member and an alumni who blazed her trail as an entrepreneur, starting her own business, wineVEIL. And she's joined this evening by the beloved Theresa Stern, who stood at the helm of GDB working with alumni until she recently retired. Her retirement, though, led her on a journey to blaze her trail quite literally on the Camino de Santiago in Spain this past year. The format for tonight is going to be a little bit different than other Speaker Series. Instead of each of our two panelists speaking directly about their experiences separately, they're going to engage in a discussion with one another about their journeys. So during this time if you have questions, think about those at the end. The amazing Deb Cook Lewis, who's helping to make sure that everything goes smoothly with technology, will open it up for people to ask questions after the conversation piece takes place. So, without further ado, let me turn it over to Kelly Egan and Theresa Stern. Welcome. Theresa: Great. Thank you. Kelly: Thank you. Well, Theresa, can I start with you a little bit? Theresa: Sure. Kelly: I have a boatload of questions, but I'll keep it to a minimum. So, first of all, tell me a little about the Camino de Santiago. Why did you choose that for a hike or a journey? Theresa: An adventure. Yeah. Well, thank you. And it's so nice to be back in the, unfortunately, virtual -- I wish we were all in person. And so saying I’m saying hi to all the fabulous GDB alumni out there. So, yeah. So my husband Craig and I had heard of the Camino de Santiago for several years, people who had done it or talked about it. There was a movie probably within the last ten years called The Way that was directed and produced by Emilio Esteves and starred his dad, Martin Sheen. And that’s actually kind of gave us even a little more inspiration to do the journey. And just the idea of it seemed great. So just a little bit about the Camino de Santiago. So the Camino de Santiago is a pilgrimage that has been around for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. And there's lots of sort of different paths you can take, and they all end up in Santiago de Compostela, in the Galicia area of Spain. And that's because that's where it is reported that St. James, who is the Apostle James, that his bones, his body is buried there. So that's how it kind of started back in the old, old, old days was this religious pilgrimage. And some people did it, obviously for religious reasons. The idea was that if you completed the journey, then your sins were forgiven. Then it became also like if you got in trouble, instead of sending you to jail, sometimes they would send you on the Camino to Santiago to do this pilgrimage. So it just has had tons and tons of history. So, like I said, there are several different routes you can take. And the route that we took is probably the most well -- what I would say -- resourced, and it's probably the most common route. And it's from -- it's called the Camino Frances because it starts in France, and it moves along sort of northern Spain and ends up in Galicia in Santiago de Compostela. We started in Pamplona. We did not start in Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port because we decided, you know what, this is a long journey. So that journey itself is about 550 miles. So we started probably 100, well, maybe 70 miles less than that. So we started in Pamplona, Spain. And that way we were able to avoid the climbing up and down the Pyrenees, which I didn't want to do on the first week of traveling. So I guess what really interested us about it was it's such an adventure. So we're walking across Spain, which we both love Spain. My family, my dad's side of the family is from Spain, so I have some – they’re Basque roots. And so going walking through those areas, walking where so many other people had walked before, the idea of a pilgrimage, which could be anything for anyone. If you're really into Elvis, a pilgrimage could be a trip to Memphis. A pilgrimage really just means that you're doing something for a reason, and you're thinking about it as you do it. So what I loved about it was that because people have been walking this route before cars, when everybody walked, not just those of us who can't see very well and can't drive. Everybody walked. Little towns sprung up, so every probably five to ten kilometers, there's another little town that has services. So as you're walking, you can stop and have a cup of coffee or enjoy a glass of wine and then get up and walk some more. And there's hostels and hotels and those kind of things all along the way. So it's really just this two-footed adventure, no need for a car. So I think that’s probably a really long, long answer. Sorry, Kelly. Yes? Kelly: Well, I got more questions for gosh sake. Theresa: Yes. Good. Kelly: Anyway, so you didn't do the whole 550 miles. How far did you walk? Theresa: We walked about 430 miles. So it was still a good amount of walking. We did that in about 40 days of walking. So we took a lot of time. So we took a lot of time. That's why the retirement was important because I needed completely free to just go and walk. Yes. Kelly: I think it's amazing that it took you less than a year to walk that far. I'm just saying. Anyway, that's fantastic. Well, how was it traveling 400 and some miles without your guide dog? Theresa: Yeah, you bring up a good point. So I did not bring my guide dog on this journey. Wills is ten years old, and the very last thing he wants to do is walk at least 10 miles a day, every day for 40 days. So I did not bring him with me. Luckily, we have a wonderful relationship with his amazing puppy raisers, who live in Texas, Robert and Gretchen Ryan. And so our flight to Spain, we had it set up so that our transfer was in Dallas. And so they picked up Wills at the airport, and Wills got to hang out in Dallas. So, yeah. So it was really kind of weird not to be with a guide dog, but we had done a lot of practice, obviously, for this walk because it was pretty intense. And so the way that I did it, I have a bit of vision. So if my husband walks right in front of me, I can see his outline. And I used two hiking poles, both for balance -- so one on each side of me. And then my husband, Craig he was -- I'll just say he was pretty awesome. Now, don't let anybody tell him that I said that, but he was amazing. Don't say anything, Kelly. Yeah. Kelly: I won’t say anything. I won’t say anything. Theresa: So he would let me know what the terrain was like because the terrain changed a lot. It could be roads, it could be sidewalks, it could be dirt paths, it could be old Roman roads, cobblestones. So there was a lot of different kinds of terrain that we went on. And you know what? We just took it one step at a time, really. And that was, I think, the lesson I got out of that journey was you can really – you can do anything if you just put one foot in front of the other. Kelly: Right. Theresa: Yeah. Kelly: What a great lesson that is. Theresa: Yeah. It was really an important lesson to me because I'm not typically an athletic person. Maybe if there was a competitive taking the cork off of a champagne bottle competition in the Olympics, I might. But other than that, I'm not very athletic. And kind of growing up as a blind kid, I probably didn't push myself as hard as I could on some of these adventurous things. So to just know afterwards that you could do it made me feel like, well, there's probably pretty much anything I can do if I just put one foot in front of the other. Kelly: What a great lesson. I think that is a great lesson for all of us who are blind or low vision, because really, that's how we get from A to B safely, period. And that's a great lesson. What was the most inspirational part of the journey in your mind? Theresa: Oh, wow. Gosh. Most inspirational? I think – gosh, it's hard to say. We met so many people from all over the world that were doing the same thing, all over the world. In fact, we met a guy from Germany who started out his front door in Germany, walking through to Spain from Germany. So that was – and all kinds of different people from all different walks of life, all different ability levels. I was certainly inspired to do this by some of our amazing grads that have done it. We've had other grads who've done the Camino, and some people who have done it with their guide dogs as well. Kelly: Oh really? Theresa: Yeah. So -- or parts of it. So, yeah. That was great. And then also our fellow alum who spoke at our reunion last year, Mary Wilson, who is doing the Appalachian Trail, she gave me some great tips on hiking poles. So I think it's been really inspirational, I think, just knowing this community is out here and having -- feeling like while I was out there, I was walking for all of y’all, right, that couldn't be out there with me. Kelly: Yeah. So you would recommend it to other guide dog users or blind and low vision folks? Theresa: Yeah. I absolutely would. It's totally doable. There were some times where we decided to take the road route, walk alongside the road, when it was sort of rainy and slippery and downhill rock kind of stuff. But a lot of people who could see were doing the same thing. So, yeah, no. I think it's a totally doable thing. My husband planned it all out, and he had everything planned out ahead of time. So we had all of our hotels. We stayed in hotels. You can also do -- stay in hostels for whatever 10 euros a night, 20 euros a night. So you can do it really that way, too. We're old and want our own bathroom. We stayed in hotels, and we had it all sort of planned out. We also -- another little trick that we did that helped me -- like I said, my balance isn't great, so having the walking sticks was important. But also, I wasn't carrying all of my stuff on my back. So we had a transfer service. So for 5 euros a day, they'd pick up your suitcase or bag or whatever at your hotel and take it to your next hotel. So it's waiting for you when you get there. Kelly: Oh. That's great. Theresa: Yeah. And so that was good. So I just carried a little day pack with water and snacks and anything that was super important in case the luggage didn't make it to the hotel. Kelly: And you're still married to Craig. Theresa: I'm still married to Craig. It was funny. Another thing about the Camino is if you do at least the last 100 kilometers -- and clearly we did a lot more than that -- that once you get to Santiago de Compostela, you can go and you get an actual this big certificate that says that you did the walk. And it's a really cool thing. It's all in Latin and very historic to have one of those. And then you get another one that verifies how many miles you walk. And the way you do that is every day you get another stamp. So all the hotels, restaurants, 7-11s, everybody has a stamp. And so that verifies that you were a certain place on a certain day. Deb: Oh, cool. Theresa: So they look through your little booklet, and they look at your stamps, and then they decide if you did it or whatever. But Craig would tease about, “I wonder if we're going to get three certificates when we finish? We're going to get a certificate of completion, a mileage certificate, and a divorce certificate.” But, no, we actually -- we got along really well. I think we were too tired to argue. Kelly: Well, he sounds like an amazing husband. Theresa: He is. Yes. Kelly: A couple more questions. What was the scariest, most frustrating part of your trip? Theresa: Yeah. So I think it was more in my head. So there's this one part of the Camino that's called O Cebreiro, and you hike up this hill, obviously. And then they say that it's really challenging, and then that the descent is really kind of tricky and scary. And it was raining the night before that we were supposed to start that piece of -- that little section of the trail. And so neither one of us slept very well. And I was like -- I was really pretty scared. I'm like, “Oh. I don't want to break my leg out here in the middle of nowhere.” And so it was really more in my head. Because, like I said, once I realized you just go slow, one step in front of the other, and it was fine. But, yeah. As far as frustrations -- in Spain, they eat late. So there were some little towns that the restaurant wouldn't open until 10:00 at night. We're getting up at 6:00 to get ready to be on the trail at seven. So there were a couple of nights of banana and potato chip dinners. So that was a little bit frustrating. Kelly: Oh, my gosh. Wow. Oh, you're brave. Okay, so one last question. I've heard through the grapevine of GDB that there was a wine fountain somewhere along the way that someone named Theresa got into, stepped into. Can you tell me a little bit about stepping into the wine fountain, which I don't believe was meant to be stepped into? Theresa: No, I did not step into the wine fountain, but I did step up to the wine fountain. So, yeah. There is this place along the Camino where -- it's right outside of -- part of the Camino you're walking through the Rioja section of Spain, which is really the sort of wine section of Spain. And outside of one of the wineries, they have two fountains. It's in the wall, like a fountain, like a water fountain. One is water and the other is wine. So you can go and fill up your canteen, if you want to, with wine. Kelly: Or your water pack. Theresa: Yeah, exactly. So that's the water fountain. So I did not step into the water fountain. It was in the wall. Kelly: Okay. Well, that was the rumor. It was the rumor. I’m just saying. Theresa: I do like the rumor though. If it was not in the wall, I have been known to step in fountains before, so that could have very well happened. But speaking of wine, let's move on to you, little Miss Kelly. I want to hear -- so I blazed a trail, a walking trail. But you've really been a trailblazer in terms of being an entrepreneur and different things that you do. And just talking about wine, it really reminds me of probably the one venture that I know the most about that you've done, which is the wineVEIL. So if you could let us -- talk to us a little bit about that, about wineVEIL, and how did you come up with that idea to dig into? Kelly: Well, thank you. All right. Well, yes. You're right. I've worked for large companies and done all sorts of senior management and all that kind of stuff. But along the way, I’ve always had a side, additional business. I owned a flower shop for a while. I started a company called Hire Potential, H-I-R-E Potential, which, interestingly, was a recruitment company and employment company for people with disabilities. So we would hire people with disabilities and put them at companies like IBM and Hewlett Packard and so on and so forth. And this was before I admitted that I had a disability, meaning I was not blind at that point. But it was something that gave me a little foundation for how to be blind, eventually. And then back in, oh gosh, 2011, I was still pretending not to be blind, so I didn't quite have my guide dog yet or anything like. I chose to trip and fall and land on my head instead. So it took me a while to really discover that I needed a dog, et cetera, a guide dog. But anyway, I was over at a friend's house. I lived in Denver at the time, and I was over at my friend's house and we were sitting out in the backyard. And they had a couple of friends down from Sonoma county near Napa Valley. And they had brought some beautiful wine. And of course, we were sitting out in the backyard having a little wine at evening and so on and so forth. Beautiful. And I was looking at them, I go, “What are you doing?” And they were putting baggies over their wine glasses, upside down. So upside down baggies over their wine glasses so bugs wouldn't get in. And so I said, “That's not very attractive. That is so unattractive, very tacky for this beautiful wine and these lovely wine glasses. What, do you carry baggies in your purse or what?” Anyway, so that got me to thinking. Wow. Wait. We could certainly figure out a better way to protect a great glass of wine from bugs and other things that might fly into it when you're out and about. Whether you're out having a glass of wine or having something to drink over lunch or whatever you might be drinking, how do you keep the bugs and tree and limbs and, excuse me, leaves out of your wine? Theresa: Yeah. Kelly: So back in about 2011, ‘12, I started thinking of the idea and came up with this idea of wineVEIL. And wineVEIL, we came up with the name and were able to create an LLC. And basically a wineVEIL was a five by five piece of really lovely fabric that would lay over a wine glass. And it had weights on each corner, so it would lay there and stay there and not be blown away by the wind or anything like that. So three of the corners had clumps of grapes and one corner had a dragonfly. So that was a wineVEIL. Yeah. And so the wineVEILs came four in a package, and they came in different colors, like, one package was called the Blend, like for wine, and one was called Reserve. Theresa: Oh, cute. Kelly: And one was called Festive and Sophia and Ornaments for Christmas. Anyway, so they came in really pretty packaging, gorgeous packaging, which made them great gifts. So initially we sold them to wineries all over the country, mostly in California to start because that's where I live and that's where there's lots of great wine. So we sold know Mumm Napa, St. Francis, other big vineyards, and then got a website up called wineveil.com and sold to individuals. So we sold both retail and wholesale. And it just really went on for about ten years -- well, until 2023, which at the beginning of this year, end of last year, beginning of this year, one of my original clients from ten years ago had been using their wineVEILs and taking them everywhere they went. And they're in Ohio, blah, blah, blah, and they bought the company. Deb: Oh, they did. Oh, wow. Kelly: They did. So I have successfully started and sold wineVEIL, and it's still out there under wineveil.com. It's just different owners. But gosh, what a fun experience to be able to travel and go to wineries and share this product with them. And then the whole purpose for selling wholesale was so that individuals -- retail could find them or individuals could find them to buy them on their own for gifts and things like that. Often people would buy them for gifts for all sorts of holidays and so on and so forth. So it became a really fun and successful opportunity. And I could see a lot more ten years ago, and it was much easier to figure out the colors and things of that nature. I had manufacturers that created the wineVEILs and packaged them for me in Colorado, where I initially started with it. But the timing was great when my new buyers bought it because my eyesight is pretty much not there at all. So it was impossible to worry about color or anything of that nature. So basically, it was fun. It kept me very busy and was a successful venture that was easy and doable along the way. As you know, we all know, our eyesight might change and our situations might change in ways that we're not able to control, so to speak. And so having the ability to have this great venture and then transition it to people who can take it to the next level was a great opportunity. Great fun. Theresa: Yeah. That's amazing. And I love that, again, what you did, sort of similar to me, is found something you really loved and sort of dug into it. Like, you love wine. I know you love wine. I know you love wine. Kelly: Yes, I do. Theresa: As do I. And really finding -- it's funny because I think a lot of us have ideas like, oh, wouldn't it be good if they had this or that. But for you to really take it to that next level and actually make it into something, I think that's amazing. How did it feel to you when you sold it? Did you feel like you're losing -- sending your baby off to college? Kelly: Yes. Yes. Yes. It was a combination of gratitude and sadness. And I did a lot of work with the new buyers to transition things and so on and so forth, because it's a really big undertaking, I've got to say. It sounds like it might be something pretty straightforward, but you have to figure out where to buy your fabric. You have to figure out where to buy your charms. You have to figure out where to buy the bags, the plastic bags it goes on. You have to figure out where to find the ribbon that wraps around them. You have to figure out where to find the little tag and card that's going to be on the front of them. You have to figure out where to find your backings. So there's about probably 20 pieces of stuff that goes into each set of wineVEILs. So transitioning all that stuff to them and helping them discover how to transition smoothly so they wouldn't have to start over but they could just move into the company and take it from there. They're using my manufacturers still in Colorado. The buyer, she's like, “Okay, tell me how to make them.” And I'm like, “Oh, honey, you're not going to want to make these.” To make them perfectly, you really need to be a quote unquote professional sewer. But she's like, “Well, if you could just...” And I'm like, “Okay. Well, here you go.” But that lasted about ten minutes. And then they are using the manufacturers that I used from Colorado, which is a small little two person company. They met -- he and she met in the Korean War. He was in the war, and she's Korean, and she's a great sewer, and he is a great mailer. He mailed them and packaged them and things like that. So anyway, they were able to take over and transition, and we'll see where they go from there. But they have the same website, but they've updated it to meet who they are, which is perfect. Theresa: Right. That's so cool. I love it. I love it. Well, I know -- so you're kind of in between projects right now. Kelly: Yeah. Theresa: I know for me when I finished the Camino, I think because my husband and I have been talking about it for so long and all that kind of stuff, it's like, okay, well, now what? So we've actually decided to -- we're going to hike another route of the Camino de Santiago this time. We're going to start from Porto in Portugal and walk from there. It's a little shorter route. It's about half as far as what we have just walked. But how about you? Do you have any ideas of any more gadgets or anything rolling around in your brain or ideas of where you want to take the next step? Kelly: Yeah. No gadgets yet. But well, believe me, I think of new ideas and gadgets every day because I've kind of got that creative mindset sort of thing. But I've been reading a lot of, listening to a lot of books, which I absolutely love reading. And one of the things that keeps rolling around my mind is the concept of working for a nonprofit that supports youth/teens in trouble with addiction and that type of thing and/or their families because I've gone through that with my daughter. And if I could bring value to that, that would be very meaningful to me because my daughter died with that, and it would be a great way to share the lessons she taught me with others. Theresa: I’m sorry. Yes. Yes. Kelly: It's a meaningful, wonderful thing. And it's hard for us to figure out when we're in the midst of it. And if anybody could help us, that's something that sounds like a good next step for me, but thank you for asking. Theresa: Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's amazing, and I love that you can share that. It's a great new adventure for you that's also going to be just positive for the world. Kelly: Well, I hope so. I hope so. But I really still like wine is all I can tell you. Theresa: Yeah, of course. Kelly: So, Deb, does anybody have any questions? Deb: Well, if you do have a question, you can raise your hand, and there's a raise hand button. If you are using a device, there's a raise hand button right there for you. And if you're on the phone, you can press star nine to raise your hand and then star six to unmute when I give you that signal. So if anyone does -- and Don has a question. You'll have to unmute, Don. There you go. Don: All right. Now can you hear me? Deb: Yes. Don: Very good. Well, I don't really have a question, but I just wanted to say to Shelley that you sold me my first iPhone. Unidentified: Oh. To Kelly? Kelly: Oh, did I? When I worked at Sprint? Unidentified: I love it. Don: Yes. So I think that was another thing that you did. Kelly: Oh, sure. Don: And I did not have a guide dog then. I was at the NFB convention. I don't remember where it was. And it might have been 2015. Kelly: It very well could have been. Yes. I was working for Sprint at the time and was at the convention. Don: Yes. You sold my first phone. And I remember you helped me get it set up, and I started to walk away, and then I thought, “Gosh, I forgot to ask.” I turned around. I went back, and I said, “Kelly, how do I turn it off?” And you said, “Why would you want to?” I thought that was a great response. “Why would you want to.” Anyway, you got me started with my first iPhone, so thank you very much. Kelly: Well, I'm glad you have a guide dog, too. Don: Yes, I got my guide dog about three years ago, and he was a -- I'm his second owner. For some reason, the first owner returned him and then COVID hit. So he was in a foster home for a while. And I performed at a concert, and he was at the concert, and he came up and met me during the intermission. Deb: Oh, and he chose you? Don: Yeah, he chose me. And the person that was fostering him said, “Gosh, Don. I know you're applying to get a guide dog. Maybe Relay will be your dog.” Theresa: No way. Don: “I don't think I'm supposed to say that.” She told me, “I don't think I'm really supposed to say that. Don’t tell anybody.” But it turned out when I went to the Oregon campus and met my guide dog on the first afternoon, they brought the dog in and said, “This is Relay.” And I said, “I met Relay. Relay and I are already friends.” So that’s kind of cool. Kelly: Oh, that's a great story. Theresa: Oh my god. I love that story. Wow. Don: Anyway, thank you, Kelly, for one of your other businesses. Kelly: Thank you. Nice talking to you. Deb: Someone in the 213 area code. Shirley: It’s Shirley Manning. Theresa: Hey, Shirley. Shirley: Hi. My question is for Theresa. And I think I've answered it for myself, and I didn't want to be rude and unraise my hand. Given that Wills is ten, I was going to ask, will you be taking him on the shorter trek this next time? But at ten, that's probably still a no, right? Theresa: Yeah. No, I don't think I will. He will be hanging probably with his puppy raisers again. But yeah. Because although it's shorter, we're doing it in a shorter amount of time. So it's still about 10 miles a day, which would be really a lot for him. But Shirley, I want to tell everybody. So if you guys probably got your Alumni News yesterday, and Shirley had a really great addition. I put it in as a link in the alumni bulletin board section, and it's accessible hiking trails in the national parks. Unidentified: Oh, great. Theresa: Yeah. So check that out because it's a really amazing article. Thank you, Shirley, for sharing that. Shirley: Oh, you're welcome. Deb: All right. Bruce, you can unmute. There's an unmute button right there for you. Theresa: It's -- I see it's Bruce Gilmore. I know he walks a lot. Deb: Yes, it is. And we know that. Theresa: Yes. Deb: I'll send you the thing again. Okay. And Bruce is not unmuted yet, and we do not have any additional hands right now. Oh, here we go. Unidentified: Go ahead. Deb: All right. Kelly: There we go. Deb: Dusty? Dusty: Hello? Theresa: Yes. Dusty. Yes. Deb: Yes. Go ahead. You were unmuted. Theresa: Yeah. I heard her for a second. Yeah. Deb: What's going on here? Theresa: I don't know. It's crazy technology. Deb: Okay. Yeah. You're unmuted. It looks like. Dusty: Hello. I just joined. Deb: There you go. Theresa: There she is. Dusty: Hello. I just wanted to see what this was about and yeah. Sorry for being late. Deb: Oh, well. That’s okay. Theresa: Thanks for joining us, Dusty. Where do you live? Dusty: I'm in Corpus Christie, Texas. Theresa: Oh, wow. Okay. Very good. And who's your guide dog? Dusty: I don't have yet. I got accepted. I'm on the waiting list. Theresa: Oh. Well, excellent. Well, you'll have to keep us posted. Kelly: Well, hang in there. It's worth waiting. Theresa: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Deb: Okay. It looks like Bruce is unmuted. There you are. Bruce: Hey, Kelly. Theresa. Bruce: Okay. So I -- difficulty was just -- I missed the first part of the class. Okay. And that was the unmuting. Theresa, thank you very much for what you've done to bring us along on the journey. And Kelly, thank you very much. There's an idea, Theresa and Kelly, that you've sort of slid into the conversation. Deb: Whoops. Uh-oh. I just -- I think I did that to you, Bruce. Hang on. Let me let you back. Why did that happen? Unidentified: Oh, shoot. Theresa: We do have Zoom bugs today, I think. Deb: Yes, we do. All right. Let's unmute again there, Bruce, and you'll be okay. There's a button there you can use, or you can use the command A if you're on the PC or the shift -- I mean, the alt A if you're on the PC, or shift command A if you're on a Mac. Yeah. Looks good. Bruce: Am I there? Theresa: Yes. Deb: You're there. I'll try not to mess you up again. Bruce: No, no, not at all. Theresa and Kelly, a great thread that you've had through this. There's two things that it's not for the public and when you put this into the Zoom archives, and that's just -- I'll contact Theresa when this is over, but I'll ask her the question now so she can get prepared for my call. What did you have to do for what I would call the conditioning or the expectations physically, one. And two, recognizing your husband is sighted, but to be walking 10 miles a day but you're not using a guide dog or a white cane with just two walking poles and a man in front of you that you can sort of see his shape, his silhouette. I admire that. I can understand why you'd be frustrated at 10:00 at night. The restaurants are opening, and you want to go to bed. And the other one was Kelly is the thread, and I'll leave on this one. Theresa and Kelly, there's a great story in here. And Theresa, you nailed it. You just said a pilgrimage is not something to meet somebody else's expectations. It's your journey. I just wanted to -- great to hear your voice, Theresa. And Kelly, great to hear your voice. But a pilgrimage is just not a standard. It's just something that you do that helps you to get from A to B. Theresa: That’s right. And you can even look at all of life as a pilgrimage. Right? Kelly: Yeah. Theresa: Well, Bruce, I will answer your first question about conditioning. So we did get out and do hiking around -- you know, we live up here in Marin county, so we're really lucky to have lots of hiking. But even just, I mean, we did a walk one day. It was like -- we called it the Costco hike. So it was kind of this boring hike across town to Costco. But when we went there and back and around a different direction back home, it was 10 miles. So it was just a matter of getting out and just walking and really making sure that your shoes -- because we saw a lot of people -- there's a lot of people who do this, and they do a lot more mileage every day than we're doing. And they were just really uncomfortable. So we were lucky to have the time to just take our time and go slow. But the getting your feet ready for it and making sure that your shoes are just right and how to prepare your feet. I used this goo stuff that you rub all over your feet, hiker goo. And that really helped. And then some silicon little things that you put over your toes. And I didn't get any blisters, and Craig didn't get any blisters. So that was pretty amazing. But you're right. It is -- you do have to kind of trust when you're walking behind someone and you're hoping that it's going to be okay. Kelly: I'll never get this picture out of my mind of you putting goo on your feet. Theresa: Oh, yeah. I know. You put this goo on your feet. It really works. Kelly: Not too sexy. Theresa: Not sexy at all. Bruce: So Theresa? Theresa: Uh-huh. Bruce: In practical terms, just a real simple question. For the amount of time that you and Craig were together on any -- was there enough places along the way that you could stop for rehydration? You're obviously, you're obviously needing water. Theresa: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And like I said we just went slow. So because so many pilgrims have done this for so many centuries, like I said, there's all these little towns, so you don't really have to go very far until there's a nice place to sit and have a coffee or just rest. So we would do 10 miles or whatever, but I think the longest day we did was, I don't know, like 15 or something. That was more than I wanted to do. I was kind of crabby after that. Kelly: Still married. Theresa: Yeah. What was I going to say? Bruce: Hydration. I was talking about hydration. Theresa: Yeah, hydration. So we just take all day. We weren't in any rush. So we would stop, we would drink. We carried a lot of water, and there was always places to get water, and there was water fountains. They would mark them if it was potable water or not. And we really only got sort of lost once because this trail is -- well, it's a trail. I say trail, but this course or whatever is really so well marked that every couple hundred yards or whatever, there's another little arrow that's pointing you in the direction to go. So it's even through the cities and through the country and whatever, it's all very well marked. So yeah. Bruce: Two remaining questions -- Deb: - Bruce we've got several more hands. We need to -- Bruce: -- What time of the year did you do this? Theresa: I did it in May. Bruce: Okay. So no heat extremes? Theresa: No, we were super lucky, a little bit of rain, but that was okay. Bruce: Yeah. Okay. And, Kelly, when did you go off of tequila to wine? Kelly: Never did. Never did. Bruce: Thank you, Theresa and Kelly. Theresa: Thanks, Bruce. So good to hear from you. Unidentified: Way to go, Theresa. Theresa: Thanks, Bruce. Deb: The 517 area code. Deb: Hi, Theresa. It's Deb Weiss. Theresa: Hi, Deb. How are you? Deb: I'm fine. I know Theresa. Kelly, I've never met you, but I've known Theresa for a long time. We go back and I’ve been to Ski for Light many times, and we've had many adventures both during wine presentations as well as guide dog presentations. Theresa: Yes. Yes. Deb: I have a question for each of you. One, Theresa, you talked a lot about the walking and your adventure. I want to hear more about the fun aspects of it, because I know when I trained for a bicycle trip, my ex and I did 320 miles in five days’ biking. And I would always like to get my pain done first. Let's hurry up and get through whatever miles we need to cover for the day, and then let's eat and drink, and then we'll recover and repeat the next day. So I wonder how you modulated your time on the trail to reap your wine or celebratory benefits? Theresa: Yes. Yes. Good question. So as we were -- well, the walk was beautiful. I have to tell you that, too. It was really beautiful countryside and nice chatting with other people who are doing the same thing, like I said, from all the world and meeting people and stuff like that. So that kind of helps the time go by. Every day -- so I put together before we left like a little bag, and it had a quote of the day, a song of the day. And then a friend of mine gave me a book of joke, so we would pick a quote and a song and a joke. So we had our little iPad, so we would play this. So I'd picked out songs that were kind of inspirational or whatever or quotes that were inspirational, whatever. That made it kind of fun, too, because that would kind of get us up in the morning. And then, like you said, we started early because you don’t want to -- we were lucky with the weather, but it could get hot. So we would start early, get going, we would, like I said, we'd have a little breakfast. We would go walk for a little bit, then sit down, have coffee and maybe a second breakfast, and then go a little further. But, yeah, then we would get into town. And we had -- like I said we -- you could do this a lot more humbly and stay in hostels and cook for yourself and all that. We did not do that. We stayed in hotels. Deb: We didn't either when we did. And everybody else camped, and we were in hotels. Theresa: Yeah, we were in hotels. And my husband, who is the planner, he even looked up some really fancy restaurants that we went to, some Michelin Star restaurants. Some places we stayed a couple of nights so that we would kind of give ourselves a rest. And then we would look around town and we would do probably just as much mileage walking around town but doing all the touristy stuff. Spain, there's great food, great wine. It's so affordable. I mean, a glass of wine there, like two euro. It’s nothing. A lot of tapas. Yeah. So we definitely had a good time, too. Yes. Deb: Good. It's so great to hear your voice. Theresa: I miss you. I know. Deb: -- alumni party, one of these days. Theresa: Yes. Deb: And Kelly, I have a one for you because I know there may be others. You just sold your business. Did you send a lot of inventory to the new owner? Because I am very much interested in the wineVEIL. Kelly: Oh, yeah. They have plenty of inventory, and they use the same manufacturer right now. So if you go to wineveil.com, you can buy wineVEILs on their site. And I'm sure they're all set up to do business. Deb: Will some of them be [crosstalk 00:53:21]. Kelly: Pardon me? Deb: Will some of them be things that you designed? Kelly: Yeah. It'll all be exactly what I designed. Deb: Okay. Awesome. That's all I wanted to be sure of. Well, I'll let somebody else talk. And it's very nice chatting with the two of you. The presentation was awesome. Thank you. Kelly: Thank you very much. Theresa: Thanks, Deb. Deb: All right. And Deborah? You'll need to unmute. And while she's working on that, let's have Peter. There you go. Peter: Greetings from Naperville. Theresa: Oh, Naperville. Peter: If she’d have known, she wouldn't have unmuted me. Thanks to the wonderful Maya Scott and Leigh Moss for coming up with the idea of doing the Speaker Series like this. I pictured the two of you sitting on opposite ends of a couch in front of a fireplace, drinking your wine, having a conversation. So it was wonderful. Thank you both for sharing your stories. And, Kelly, thank you for sharing about what your future aspirations or what you're looking to do in memory of your daughter and what you learned from her. Kelly: Thank you. Peter: Did you ever -- have you thought about your previous Hire Potential and tying that somehow into people with addictions who are people with disabilities once they're recovering? Kelly: Well, that's a great question. Peter: Because everyone needs a purpose, and people who are struggling from addictions struggle to find employment, to get jobs because of a checkered past. But anyways, those are my thoughts. And thanks, everyone, for a wonderful session. Kelly: Well, thank you. And that's a great thought. And by the way, Hire Potential still exists. One of the original partners that started it with me is still running it. And so she certainly understands my history and is certainly involved with people with addiction. So I think that's a great concept. Yes. You're absolutely right. And thank you for bringing that up, because I think it's something we can definitely do more of is helping individuals with addictions or issues that they've had to recover from to get employed or do whatever it is they feel like is next for them. Deb: All right. I don't currently see any more hands, and we're pretty close on our time. So you guys want to wrap up maybe? Theresa: Yeah. I just want to say thank you guys for inviting me to come and chit chat. And I just -- sending virtual hugs to all the alum out there. I miss you guys. Kelly: Thank you, Theresa, for being part of this. I love you. And please stay completely connected to us. And thank you to everybody who joined. And Leigh, thank you very much for hosting this call. And, Pete, thanks for wrapping it up. And, Deb, thank you very much for making it all work. So I give great thanks to everybody. And Maya, thanks for the idea. Theresa: All right. Leigh: Yeah. Thank you to Kelly and Theresa again and to Deb for a great discussion about blazing your own trails and another successful Speaker Series. Theresa: Right. All right. Well, good night, everyone. Unidentified: Good night, everybody. Cheers. [End of Recording]